VN Ren'Py Being a DIK [v0.11.1] [DrPinkCake]

gingersweetgirl said:

Taking this discussion in another direction, I think that too many adult games fall into the story trope of needing a central mystery (or mysteries) to compel the player. The problem with mysteries is that they're hard to write. Professional writers can struggle to put together a compelling mystery because of all the components that go into it. But 99% of adult game devs are not professional writers, and it shows. DPC got away with it in AL, but I think the scope of BaDIK has strained his abilities. Frankly, in AL the major twist/mystery plays out in the background for most of the game before exploding on the scene late in the game; so it was easier to hide. But in BaDIK the mysteries are taking center stage, with multiple concurrent stories. I think this has resulted in BaDIK's narratives feeling poorly constructed. I won't say they suffer from plot holes, or even inconsistencies, but they just feel sloppy. If it was just one story line, that would be one thing, but it isn't:

Does Maya's conflict with her father and the student loans make sense under scrutiny?
Why is Bella included as a LI, and will her mysterious background make sense?
Does the blackmail story make sense? Is that a realistic threat that Tybalt could cause trouble for the MC?
And what's the deal with Jill and her background? Is she the MC's aunt?
What is Quinn's plan, and how is Tommy involved? They seem in way over their head.

Any one of these story lines could probably be compelling enough on their own, but we have five of them. For some of these stories, I feel like the continued mystery is unhelpful, and that we as the audience should know a lot more even if the character's don't. The hook of a mystery makes sense, but you don't always need to rely on it, especially if you aren't able to assemble the clues in a compelling way. Instead, we're sitting here debating if the connective tissue within the stories make sense- and that isn't what you want if you're the creator. If your stories are causing people to pause and ask if this makes sense, then you have a problem. Even if logical answers are possible, the story just needs to flow without requiring players to debate about it on a forum. If assembling the story as a series of mysteries is hurting the connective tissue then you need to try a different approach.

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shazba said:

Tybalt isn't going to press charges or sue the mc, he only has witnesses that the mc was at the premises, and considering it's a frat house, the chances of any judge taking that seriously...

Any further crimes that Tybalt may wish to pin on the mc would require his friends to perjure themselves, not likely...

Even if the MC hit Tybalt, Tybalt struck first and once again, Tybalt's friends aren't going to perjure themselves and deny Tybalt struck first because they know too many other witnesses (like all of the DIKs) saw it.

But the whole point here is not that Tybalt is going to take any legal action; he's just used the situation to show Jill what a bad influence the mc is and threaten legal action. And he's done so in such a way that it doesn't look like blackmail to Jill; he's convinced Jill that he has her best interests at heart and is trying to protect her from the bad influence of the mc. Jill is even questioning the mc's character and she's disappointed that he was involved this situation.

Of course once she's told the mc, the mc just needs to confront Tybalt, he'll fold faster than superman on laundry day.

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shazba said:

Here's a question:

Was anyone able to not click, "Make out" in this scene. No matter how annoyed you were with Maya and Josy at this point, who could resist that cute, innocent face?

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DavDR said:

Josy's Father is paying her tuition, so he has considerable power. But that wasn't my point. Josy wouldn't do anything that would lower herself in her Father's eye's. That relationship is just too important to her. Her love for her Father is a central part of her character.

I don't think she would do that for Maya either. It's just a theory but I think the M/J relationship is already falling apart. We've already seen a preview picture of Josy in the HOT swimming pool in episode 7. How patient is Josy going to be with another separation from Maya because of the situation with Maya's Father?

Think of the dialogue during their 'reconciliation'
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I think it's fairly obvious that this was the major problem when they fought over the summer
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And now they are apart again. And again it's because Maya won't stand up to her Father.

Also look at the episode 5 scene between MC and Josy after her Father's visit.
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This is on a playthru where the MC chose the only friends path. Notice that Josy doesn't begin to cry until she says that she will be happy with Maya. I think on at least one level she is already regretting the loss of the MC, earlier in this scene we hear her saying that she feels like MC and Maya didn't give her a choice in the matter.

Given all of this I feel that it's unlikely that Josy would risk the relationship with her Father, just to make a sacrafice for Maya, especially if Maya isn't doing anything for herself either.

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shazba said:

Here's a question:

Was anyone able to not click, "Make out" in this scene. No matter how annoyed you were with Maya and Josy at this point, who could resist that cute, innocent face?

View attachment 951300

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shazba said:

Here's a question:

Was anyone able to not click, "Make out" in this scene. No matter how annoyed you were with Maya and Josy at this point, who could resist that cute, innocent face?

View attachment 951300

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shazba said:

Here's a question:

Was anyone able to not click, "Make out" in this scene. No matter how annoyed you were with Maya and Josy at this point, who could resist that cute, innocent face?

View attachment 951300

Click to expand...

shazba said:

Here's a question:

Was anyone able to not click, "Make out" in this scene. No matter how annoyed you were with Maya and Josy at this point, who could resist that cute, innocent face?

View attachment 951300

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godkingxerxes said:

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Decided to do a top 10 list with a few honorable mentions instead of randomly throwing girls into categories with no real though. Numbers was a lot more tricky.

Happy with the way it came out.

Starting with the honorable mentions.

Josy, I'm just holding out hope that the relationship with Maya is broken up, and she can start something solo without MC, if not she won't be here next time either.

Cathy will probably be top 10 by next episode, we know she has a Jakob painting so we know she will get more content in the future, she had very little time in 6 and zero interaction with MC, I expect to see her again and I expect her ranking to go up.

Spiderface aka Sandy was awesome, but I don't think she'll be back, at least not for a few episodes. But her awesomeness will keep her in this ranking for the time being.

Mona is most likely gone from the story, but since this is my first top 10 ranking, she'll get a spot. MC will always remember the stall threesome.

Sally is Sally, she will always get a honorable mention from me even though it will never go anywhere.

Top 5 is likely locked in place, with mayhaps Bella being able to break through depending on direction. She's either gonna break in top 5 or drop out of top 10.

I think Jill might be dropping out of the top 10 based on the direction her content seems to be leaning. I understand that this is a story being told, and we are more along for the ride than in control of the MC, but coming out and professing love for someone you've known for 3 weeks, is not my kind of content. If that's the continuation of the Jill path or MC can't get back with her after the decision, she'll be gone.

Lilly, Melanie and Sarah will likely stay where they are, can't see them top 5 can't see them outside top 10.

Quinn and Sage staying where they are. I don't know if Sage has what it takes to be number 1 but we'll see.

The latest preview image makes it seem like Riona might be gunning for 3 but not quite there yet.

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ExDeath730 said:

I never had a reason to not make out with her. Look at how the girl seem to want it, and of course, in the scene she really goes for it. That's the fun thing abou Josy, she really goes all out in these moments.

A hot take for everyone involved, because it's morning and my ideas are not all there yet. If we would have this scene in Maya's POV, would this be considered NTR?

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felicemastronzo said:

there is

just before kissing MC, Josy kisses Maya

but it seems that female NTR is never valid

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ExDeath730 said:

No, i was saying in the sense that Josy is already back with Maya in this scene, isn't her? So that's where this idea comes from. The MC at this point doesn't have any relationship with the two of them, and depending on your route, he wouldn't want to or can't.

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eyy_b0ss said:

I did
On all 3 of my playthroughs.

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shazba said:

The two girls were in a relationship all along, then both of them effectively cheated on each other with the MC. So no one's cheating on the MC, and rather than labelling it NTR and all that porno game rules nonsense, just consider it "complicated"...


But did you peek and then rollback, or was it true discipline?

EDIT: Is it just me or is the "Like" button broken? I can't put smiley faces after people's posts anymore, just thumbs up only.

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shazba said:

But did you peek and then rollback, or was it true discipline?

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ExDeath730 said:

About that situation, it was not from the MC perspective. He had nothing with then, at least nothing serious, it was from Maya's perspective because of the scene. Basically, if we were on Maya's shoes, would that be considered NTR?

About the like buttom, yep, i have the same problem, i think it isn't working right now.

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shazba said:

Yeah, I just realised what you meant, but from Maya's perspective I don't think she would be jealous at that point. She didn't even know Josy was in a previous relationship with the MC (she only finds out in the library), so she would have just thought they were playing the kissing game. If you don't choose to make out (because like, you're just too damn angry), see Maya's response, she and the MC look like major sad sacks. Don't know what her response was if they did kiss, but Lily's comment was well placed.

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Wizard_Shiryuu said:

I've read it a bit before starting writing and most of these could be classified as poor writing at best. A plot hole is a contradiction, and as far as I've read before writing (I'll read it fully as I write) I haven't seen any.

Yeah, DPC doesn't look like he handles criticism very well.

Most of us agree that the MC overreacted after Josy came in episode 3. When Josy said "We are all cheaters here" I though to myself "Well, speak for yourself". If the MC feels like a cheater at least it should have been justified to us players with some inner though or something. Those little things are the things that make us not empatize with the MC when we should.

Making Jade and Cathy not compatible with the M&J path is legitimate. I prefer being able to choose, more branching and facing consecuences for actions, but making some paths block others is fine too. I think Jade was well done. In the M&J path you arrive at the meeting place with both girls, Jade see is and not wanting to be recognized leaves fast. I don't see a problem with this. Cathy on the other hand makes no sense, MC rejects Cathy on the M&J path without informing the player or at least telling us why. Same with the bar interactions, at least there he tells us why we can't pursue them and Jill at the same time. I'd prefer the ability to fuck it up and face consecuences, but at least we are given a reason.

The MC was seen at the mansion, he wasn't invited and he's known for not liking Tybalt and the preps. I think it's enough to sue him, maybe not enough for a gilty veredict, but being tried could be very bad for someone financially impared as the MC. Jill knows this. As long as it's solid enough to blackmail Jill it's all that Tybalt needs.

I mean, Sage found panties in Chad's bag. She looks like the blind type when she's in a relationship, but she's not THAT stupid. She delegates a lot in Quinn, and she abused this to do her thing. Last year it looked like she was more careful than this one. Being smart doesn't mean not being gullible.

Burke seems to be able to cook the books to give tution to his whores. It doesn't sound unlikely at all.

That Bella scene is foreshadowing something, yes. Is that a problem?

I've complained a lot about the DIK system, a lot. Specially about the library scene, and how the game shouldn't check on affinity but on actions based on that affinity. This way we get MC who acted exactly the same towards M&J or Quinn and are rejected "because affinity". It doesn't make much sense.

I don't think you are an asshole or anything. You criticize things you don't like and that's fair, but none of them are plotholes and only a few could be considered poor writing. To me it just looks like you don't like this kind of game.

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Wizard_Shiryuu said:

I've read it a bit before starting writing and most of these could be classified as poor writing at best. A plot hole is a contradiction, and as far as I've read before writing (I'll read it fully as I write) I haven't seen any.

Yeah, DPC doesn't look like he handles criticism very well.

Most of us agree that the MC overreacted after Josy came in episode 3. When Josy said "We are all cheaters here" I though to myself "Well, speak for yourself". If the MC feels like a cheater at least it should have been justified to us players with some inner though or something. Those little things are the things that make us not empatize with the MC when we should.

Making Jade and Cathy not compatible with the M&J path is legitimate. I prefer being able to choose, more branching and facing consecuences for actions, but making some paths block others is fine too. I think Jade was well done. In the M&J path you arrive at the meeting place with both girls, Jade see is and not wanting to be recognized leaves fast. I don't see a problem with this. Cathy on the other hand makes no sense, MC rejects Cathy on the M&J path without informing the player or at least telling us why. Same with the bar interactions, at least there he tells us why we can't pursue them and Jill at the same time. I'd prefer the ability to fuck it up and face consecuences, but at least we are given a reason.

The MC was seen at the mansion, he wasn't invited and he's known for not liking Tybalt and the preps. I think it's enough to sue him, maybe not enough for a gilty veredict, but being tried could be very bad for someone financially impared as the MC. Jill knows this. As long as it's solid enough to blackmail Jill it's all that Tybalt needs.

I mean, Sage found panties in Chad's bag. She looks like the blind type when she's in a relationship, but she's not THAT stupid. She delegates a lot in Quinn, and she abused this to do her thing. Last year it looked like she was more careful than this one. Being smart doesn't mean not being gullible.

Burke seems to be able to cook the books to give tution to his whores. It doesn't sound unlikely at all.

That Bella scene is foreshadowing something, yes. Is that a problem?

I've complained a lot about the DIK system, a lot. Specially about the library scene, and how the game shouldn't check on affinity but on actions based on that affinity. This way we get MC who acted exactly the same towards M&J or Quinn and are rejected "because affinity". It doesn't make much sense.

I don't think you are an asshole or anything. You criticize things you don't like and that's fair, but none of them are plotholes and only a few could be considered poor writing. To me it just looks like you don't like this kind of game.

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